07: Power Session with Emma and Spencer: Changing Negative Financial Thoughts to Match Positive Behaviors
It’s a power session with high-school sweethearts, Emma and Spencer. Emma and Spencer are both entrepreneurs, have three children together, and have intuitively been on the same page about money. You may know Emma of Camp Climb, you know, the camp that has hosted power-entrepreneurs including Jenna Kutcher of Goal Digger, Natalie Franke of Rising Tide Society, and Kathleen Shannon of Being Boss. Emma and Spencer wanted to talk to financial therapist and coach Lindsay Bryan-Podvin because they knew they had some stuff in their heads that might be preventing them from fully stepping into their strength as they venture into big things in their respective businesses.
If you are interested in working with me, you should consider joining me in Boundless! Boundless is my 6-month group coaching program for high earning couples, and in addition to educational modules, each couple who joins gets a private 45-minute session with me! Learn more and apply right here!
Get connected with Emma of Camp Climb on Instagram.
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[00:00:00] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: All right. Today for our power session, we have Emma and Spencer here, Emma and Spencer. Why don't you guys introduce us? Tell us a little bit about where you guys are located and how long you've been together.
[00:00:13] Emma Hicks: Yeah, so my name is Emma Hicks.
[00:00:15] Spencer Hicks: I'm Spencer Hicks.
[00:00:16] Emma Hicks: And we reside on a farm outside of the Quad Cities here in Iowa. We have three children, ages three, six, and nine. We've been together for over 10 years since senior year of high school. We've known each other for our entire life and feel just like kindred spirits. There's a lot to go back there on, but, we have decided to close the chapter of having more children. So in these last couple of years, we've really been focusing on our marriage and strengthening our communication skills. And recently Spencer has dove into entrepreneurship. So we are both entrepreneurs as of October of 2019.
[00:00:58] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Awesome. And Spencer, why don't you tell me a little bit about what you guys do for your entrepreneurship?
[00:01:03] Spencer Hicks: Yeah, I wish I could tell you what Emma does, but most people ask me that and I honestly don't have a great answer for her.
[00:01:10] So I won't talk over her by any means. Myself though, I've kind of been in the business world the last eight years, I guess it is. It's always kind of been in the agricultural field. I was born and raised on a farm. Just kind of always been my way of life in my sweet spot. The last five years I sold farm equipment for a John Deere dealership and I realized I wanted more.
[00:01:30] I was basically killing myself working so much. You know, we'd go on, it was a hundred percent commission. I'd hide in the bathroom and make phone calls when we're on vacation, and it just wasn't a sustainable lifestyle for Emma and I, and I was looking for more. So actually 2019 was kind of a weird year for me.
[00:01:46] I bounced around to a couple different companies trying to find home again. Before I realized that I was kinda tired of working for other people. So I started a seed company. I'm an independent contractor through Channel and Bayer, and by the way, all opinions are my own today. So I, so I opened a seed company, so now it's kind of a different transition.
[00:02:04] I used to just be a sales guy and I had support staff. You know, now I'm the maintenance man and the delivery guy and the salesperson and the accountant, and I'm wearing a lot of different hats now. And Emma and I have talked about this before, you know about how to stay in your sweet spot, and mine is definitely the selling and the relationships and the people part of it.
[00:02:22] So there could be a day where, you know, maybe I'm, I have a possibility to hire out some of the other jobs I don't like to do so much. But here in the beginning stages, I'm wearing all hats. And I'll let Emma tell you what she does cause I can't tell you very well.
[00:02:36] Emma Hicks: Sure. Yeah. I'm a community builder and host of intimate gatherings, retreats, meetups, and an annual camp for Camp Climb.
[00:02:45] We host that annual camp here in Iowa, and then intimate intensivess throughout the Midwest, national and beyond, bringing together women in entrepreneurship who are impact driven.
[00:02:56] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Wow, awesome you guys. So you guys are both entrepreneurs coming at it from different angles, so, but the common theme I heard between both of you is that you're people-persons, you both really value relationships and community and connection.
[00:03:12] And I wonder, you know, how that kind of shows up in your relationship. I would love to know about what you guys have done in terms of your money work, whether that's money, mindset work, whether that's black and white stuff like budgeting. Tell me a little bit about what that looks like in your relationship.
[00:03:30] Spencer Hicks: Yeah, Emma and I don't really talk about money. We've never needed to. We've been together from the beginning of adulthood when we had nothing, you know, so we've always just had common goals in mind. You know, we bought and remodeled this house kind of on a whim, and Emma and I never really talked about it.
[00:03:46] She did all the design work. I did all the actual work, not actual work. I don't need to belittle you, but the physical part of it, I don't know, we maybe had a handful of conversations throughout the entire house project. I've always kind of been a black and white guy. I was basically raised by my grandpa, who was a farmer through the Great Depression.
[00:04:04] So you can imagine a very conservative mindset, and that's kind of the way I've always been in being in the agricultural field is always a stereotypically a pretty conservative field. I've always been a black and white guy. You know, I drink gas station coffee and, and would drink Starbucks coffee and I don't see the value in more expensive. If I can get the same thing for a dollar, I don't see the value in the, the logo on the cup I guess I'll say. So I'm a very black and white finance person.
[00:04:30] Emma Hicks: Yeah, I'm really strong-willed and independent and so right outta high school, I've always been very subconsciously intuitive.
[00:04:37] It wasn't until a few years back that I really like started to be so consciously aware of my intuition, and so I've let my intuition guide me forever and up to this point. But I don't know if Spencer really, I think like when a woman stands in her truth, the guy is like, if he can tell that she's standing in her truth.
[00:04:57] So going back to the first house that we bought. I looked at it that night and I said, we're, I'm gonna buy this house and flip it. And Spencer hadn't even looked through it.
[00:05:05] Spencer Hicks: I made $9 an hour at this time.
[00:05:07] Emma Hicks: Yeah.
[00:05:08] Spencer Hicks: Maybe eight.
[00:05:09] Emma Hicks: But I think that like I was so confident and sure of it, and it was a great investment for us that he didn't second guess my financial decision there.
[00:05:19] And I think I've just like built and instilled this trust in Spencer that he does trust me for my risky endeavors.
[00:05:29] Spencer Hicks: Yeah. I mean, and it hasn't always been that way. Yeah. I mean, I remember I was working a Saturday and she calls me up and we don't have any money and she says, Hey, I bought this house.
[00:05:36] And I'm like, oh, okay. I mean, yeah, sure, we'll make it work, whatever it is, and, and it's a trust that she had to build with me, and I've had to do the same with her. I just recently made a couple big decisions in my business and, kind of random pastor, but I already had my mind made up that I was gonna do it and she was okay with it.
[00:05:51] And we both just have a trust that's been built that we know we're not making foolish decisions or rash decisions. These are things that we've been thinking about and desiring for quite a while, and we still question each other. Not in a pessimistic way, or maybe mine is sometimes, I guess. But it's more of a questioning, like just being sure that you are strong in your convictions or that you know, or that you're strong in the faith that it's gonna work and that type of thing.
[00:06:13] Yeah. And it's just, so now it's. We don't really need to have, we never really had conversations. Now we really don't need to have conversations.
[00:06:18] Emma Hicks: I think we're having more conversations now. Maybe we're having more, cause I think it's getting more riskier and we've definitely failed along the way. So we just get back up on our feet and we make sure that we fail quick and then get back on the horse.
[00:06:30] So $10,000 in credit card debt after getting married and having that wedding generate that. And how are we gonna get out of this? And we were very creative and. We went to a wholesale market. I was in the picking vintage antique world and got a hold of stacks of these hatchery baskets. A thousand and sold, what did we make?
[00:06:52] Like $20,000 on that. And that was like, that was for one specific goal. That was to get out of credit card debt.
[00:06:59] Spencer Hicks: And like that was like one of those 0% for 12 months. It was like 11 months and 28 days, like credit card bill was due on Monday. We did this like a crazy whirlwind Friday, Saturday. Made enough to pay off the credit cards. Yeah, it's kind of a cool story for another day.
[00:07:13] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: It is. And I mean, as I listen to you guys, you guys are incredible outliers in the world of marriage and couples and money because a lot of the couples that I see who don't talk about money, it is an issue. So the fact that you guys have been able to, and I would challenge that you guys don't communicate about it because it does sound like you communicate about it.
[00:07:34] It's not like you are, are not engaging the other person in the communication, but you guys have such a strong trust that it's like I'm making this big decision for us as a family and here's what we're going to be doing, or here's what we need to do. But in these examples, both of you guys end up jumping on the same page to make things work.
[00:07:55] So tell me a little bit, you guys mentioned that things are a little bit different now that Spencer's a hundred percent in entrepreneurship. Tell me what kind of money stuff might be coming up now that is maybe not even getting you guys at a crossroads, but that you're looking to prevent from becoming an issue or a sticking point.
[00:08:13] Spencer Hicks: I think capital investments are becoming a big thing with my business. There's a lot of startup money in yearly capital, from infrastructure to buildings, to transportation, everything like that. And Emma, at the same time is building her business and she requires a lot of upfront money and that's maybe we're kind of like a bank, you know, we don't need to talk about things below a certain threshold, but we get over a certain threshold and we need to have a conversation.
[00:08:38] And it seems like a lot of the conversations with hers is you gotta like prepay for a lot of the stuff that she does, event centers and retreats and things like that. So it's, Hey, this is what I need. For the next 60 days until I get revenue. Are you comfortable with this? And maybe Emma can explain that a little bit better.
[00:08:55] Emma Hicks: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And just like one year, three year, five year projections. This is the fourth brand that I have built out, and I'm definitely building a brand that's bigger than myself, and I've always believed that since the start of creating it and that it's going to become a really big movement so I can make more risk in this.
[00:09:17] Community in this organization because I see the longevity of it. Mm-hmm. And these are risks that I've never taken before in any other business. So I think I'm just experiencing growing pains and looking for more trust in myself that I am going to make the right decisions. Because up to this point I have been very intuitive and very on point with my intuition in finances and it's gotten me here, but now there's like this voice in my head that's saying, Like you have to get the logical side and you have to get, all of, you need monthly reports being generated for your company. You need, you need to run like a business and not just, yeah, like run really like a ceo. Like eventually we'll have a CFO in here.
[00:10:02] So that is all new stuff for me. So I'm just like kind of rehearsing in my head to myself. What if you quit learning? What does the possibility look like if you quit learning? Because it's challenging for me, and that sounds terrible, and I, I don't wanna answer. You know, I'm not done learning. I just have to continue to push through these growing pains.
[00:10:21] So I guess with Spencer being an entrepreneur at the same time of me, just feeling really scared of the unknown with the Camp Climb organization because it's all new territory for me. I don't know. I guess there is more scarcity coming out in me than I've probably ever had before, but I'm so trusting. I feel like, I don't know, like last night I went to bed and I was like, oh my gosh, what are we gonna do?
[00:10:48] Like I really wanna see clearly these. Projected budgets. And these, these sheets getting printed out monthly. But then I woke up this morning and it was just a whole brand new attitude. Went and did yoga, and then went to the coffee shop and was just pumping out and sitting in my zone of genius and just doing what?
[00:11:05] Doing what I know best, and knowing that I'm working towards being able to hire and fill a position. That, I can do that. So yeah, I don't know. Just a lot of growing pains.
[00:11:16] Spencer Hicks: And I think with any business, if it was easy and there wasn't these stressful moments in these growing pains, everybody would work for themselves and everybody would own a successful business.
[00:11:24] You know? So we might have a few sleepless nights, but I don't know. And that's where we're always in it together. Like we know if you work hard and you put all your effort into it, you can't fail. And that's kind of how I looked at it.
[00:11:34] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Even if you do have a hiccup or a mistake happen, you guys are committed to not letting that failure define you. You're committed to finding a, a solution, finding a way to maybe make a creative solution or a pivot or something like that.
[00:11:49] Spencer Hicks: And I don't think neither one of us have ever dwelled on failures. We don't even really recognize 'em or think about 'em. I guess if you were to ask us both, you know, what have been some failures along the way, maybe Emma could answer, but I really don't.
[00:12:00] I don't, Emma would argue that we probably should sit into it and recognize it and realize it and move past it, but I just don't even really recognize it, just move on, that didn't work. So I guess all I really see is the, the successes.
[00:12:13] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Well, one thing that I have heard kind of a theme of as you guys have been speaking is the, the fancy therapy term for it is cognitive dissonance.
[00:12:21] There's a distance between what you're saying and what you guys are behaving in. By that, I mean, I heard Spencer say a lot of things like, oh, I'm, I'm pessimistic. I'm, I'm really conservative. I'm really this and that. And I heard Emma say things like, I've got fear of abundance. There's a lot of growing pains.
[00:12:38] There's a lot of. Scarcity, and I heard a lot of those scared small thoughts, but the actions that you guys are taking and the way that you're interacting with each other are not the same. They're very much in the world of abundance and trust and faith in one another. So I'm curious why you guys are holding onto those negative statements and where I, when I listen to you, you guys aren't behaving in the way that those negative statements might have you thinking.
[00:13:06] Spencer Hicks: And I think that they're, I think these are all conversations that Emma and I have internally in our own heads. And by the time they come out to each other, yeah, we've already, we've already overcome those obstacles. You know, in, in my head I'm extremely conservative and I'm extremely withheld and in all those things we just talked about.
[00:13:23] But by the time I talked to Emma, I've already overcame that in my head. So when I talked to him, I'm already through it.
[00:13:29] Emma Hicks: I think--thank you--I think like just the timing of our interview is pretty divine because honestly, like, this is the week, these are like the five days that you're gonna catch me scared shitless.
[00:13:42] And this is gonna be such a mere memory. So I think it's gonna be really cool to look back on and be able to acknowledge those fears I am having. I think sometimes I can be really unrelatable to people and like, how can you, like take all these risks and like Spencer said, I don't really remember them, looking back.
[00:13:59] So I think it'll be really good to look back and remember this. But for me right now, it is like I am sitting in just some really deep growing pains and about to hit a peak of something and really put myself out there and so next month, by next month, it'll all have changed and be different. I think too though, with what you're saying is this is something that Spencer and I are both starting to observe and accept in ourselves is that we're never enough and anything we do is never enough. So I wonder if like these voices that we're saying to ourselves in our head, like we downplay things. Or I don't know. You know what I mean?
[00:14:35] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Yeah, yeah. I mean, as I listen to you guys, what I find really interesting, so the way that our brains work is they have operated for years to keep us safe.
[00:14:47] So Spencer, going back to your grandfather growing up in the Great Depression and absorbing a lot of messaging around safety, then safety then meant making really smart financial moves, not doing things that were too risky, making sure you have food and cash easily available because that was a way to stay safe, and he passed that on to you.
[00:15:08] Make sure you can always flip a tractor within one month and make that profit really quickly because the risk of waiting six months to flip that profit is greater even if the profit might be greater, then one in the hand is better than two in the bush kinda a thing. So these types of thoughts have worked to keep you safe, except that as I'm listening to you, they're no longer serving you.
[00:15:30] So I wonder what would happen if you guys challenge some of these thoughts instead of. Oh, we've worked through them. I'm hearing them again and again and again come up. So what might happen if you guys had the opportunity to really stand in your intuition and your trust with one another? And when you say, Hey, I'm having these thoughts that I am like a really pessimistic person, having the other person say, yeah, that's an old thought. That used to maybe keep you safe when you were younger, when you were growing up. But look at us now. We've got three kids. We've got this beautiful acreage. We each have our own careers. You're actually not a pessimist. You're actually quite optimistic, and you're teaching our children how to take these big, beautiful risks.
[00:16:13] So what might happen if you guys challenged those negative thoughts or even just acknowledged them aloud and said, Hey, this is really weird, but like I'm having these COB lab thoughts kind of come up, then I'm not okay with extra money or I'm not okay with abundance. I just needed to say it out loud.
[00:16:28] Emma Hicks: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that could be really powerful.
[00:16:32] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. What's coming up for you guys as I kind of rambled on?
[00:16:37] Spencer Hicks: Well, and I was just thinking even like another money block I've always had is, so say it's capital investments or we just kinda did more cattle than we've ever done before, and I'm writing all these checks all the time and I'm always, I told them the other day, I always feel like I'm just bleeding.
[00:16:53] I'm always writing checks. I get paid four times a year and for 18 hours, I feel wealthy. And then for the next three months, I feel like I'm just continuously bleeding. One realization I had not, you know, I mean, I'm okay. I'm functioning okay, but every time I write a check I'm just like, oh God, I'm poor.
[00:17:09] You know? And then one realization I just kind of had with, you know, so I just fixed up a building here on our property and we just spent a bunch of money on some cows and we're gonna have monthly bills on those cows until we, till we sell 'em. And one realization I just kind of had was that I'm not, that money's not gone. I'm parking it in different places. The cows, I will get back someday. The only way I ever get my money back out of our building is if I sell this property, but at the same time, I'm still parking that money there. And that's helped me a little bit with my maybe money anxiety or my fearful mindset is that I, I could liquidate if I wanted to. And that's kinda as I've started my business, I've made really good deals on the stuff that I needed. And that's kind my mindset is to always, to buy something in a position where I could liquidate it, get my money back out of it, and be in a better position when I started quickly. And that just kinda goes back.
[00:18:02] So I do revert to my safety still, you know, in some instances that's like a purchase for myself. You know, Emma doesn't benefit from me buying a truck or a trailer or a skid loader or anything like that.
[00:18:13] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: I wonder if I could offer a little bridge from, I'm bleeding money, I'm poor to, the money isn't gone, I'm parking it somewhere else.
[00:18:23] Would you be open to hearing a different thought?
[00:18:25] Spencer Hicks: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:26] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: So I'm just, I'm, as you're talking, I'm just remembering how much you guys both spoke about community and relationships at the beginning, and I'm wondering, Spencer, what it might do for you if you tapped into that and said something in your words that felt good to you along the lines when you were writing these checks of, I am putting more money back into the community that I love, or I am giving money in exchange for X, Y, Z. Tying it to a value and for you guys, having that relationship be a strong value for you can be helpful instead of being so black and white. Because black and white can be helpful with money to be sure.
[00:19:06] And it's mostly psychological and emotional. So that's why you're gonna hear me like redirect you guys as we have this conversation. So how does that land with you?
[00:19:16] Spencer Hicks: Yeah I think you, you kind of nailed it there as well. You know, the contractors I used were local people. I used the small town local lumber yard.
[00:19:23] My vet is from a town, you know, he's the neighboring town with a hundred people in it. So I do try my best to keep my money in our communities and even the cattle I bought are from my neighbors. You know, so I put money directly into their pockets. So, no, I think just make that connection that my money is in my community at least I can't help what they do with it once it's in their hands, but hopefully they keep it local as well.
[00:19:45] But no, I think that is a good way of, of looking at it, is that at least it's still in our circle. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:51] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Oh, good. Well, I'm glad that resonated with you. Cool, cool. Yeah. Great. So you told me this is the fourth brand you've built. Yeah.
[00:20:00] Emma Hicks: Yep.
[00:20:01] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Okay. And how many of those other three brands were you irresponsible with when you had income coming in from them?
[00:20:08] Emma Hicks: I just continuously poured it back into the brand.
[00:20:11] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Okay, but were you irresponsible with the money in any way?
[00:20:14] Emma Hicks: No.
[00:20:15] Spencer Hicks: You never bought a new vehicle or you never, I mean, you took us on vacation once and then it about broke for like the next six months just trying to do something nice.
[00:20:24] Emma Hicks: Yeah, the way I would say that I felt like I was being irresponsible would be like, I wish I would've. And like, okay, Emma, 30% of this you get to take home. Like I've never really like given myself paychecks.
[00:20:36] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Oh, okay. Yeah. Nobody can see your face cuz we're on audio. But your face was like, ah, don't tell anyone that this is what's happened. Because if anybody listens to anything entrepreneurship related, you're gonna hear pay yourself, pay yourself, pay yourself.
[00:20:53] Otherwise it's not a business. Okay, so that's actually really helpful. So I heard a couple of things. One, I heard, no, you weren't really irresponsible with the money from those brands. And two, you don't have a system to pay yourself so that when it comes time to take a vacation, it doesn't mean that then you're scrambling to replace that income.
[00:21:13] So what would happen if as you build out this particular brand and as you build out, Climb. What might happen if you acted as your own CFO and acted in the way of, okay, 30% of this is my paycheck. How do you think that might work for you?
[00:21:32] Emma Hicks: Yeah, it feels really good. Yeah.
[00:21:34] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Okay. Okay. And what might be preventing you from doing it?
[00:21:38] Emma Hicks: I think it's the inconsistency of the money coming in. You know, it's just like here and there. It's not this monthly paycheck or income. So then I don't track it and then it all goes into the checking and pays the bills and you know, I but I don't know if I, like, I don't think I'm valuing the money in the dollar enough.
[00:21:55] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Mm-hmm. How come? Why don't you think you're valuing it enough?
[00:21:58] Emma Hicks: Like when writing checks and stuff, there's not like an emotional connection there. And maybe like, I don't know. I think I should be like, I think I should be more proud. Okay.
[00:22:07] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Say more about that.
[00:22:08] Emma Hicks: Yeah, like with the money, because it always is going back in and improving the lives of other people and helping them to take up more space and building more courage and pride and confidence inside of them that that's like super rewarding.
[00:22:23] And without the money part of it, none of it could happen.
[00:22:27] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And for you to earn money from providing that to other female entrepreneurs, that's a beautiful way to earn a living. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let's think about what it would take for you to feel really proud of paying yourself 30% of that income.
[00:22:46] Emma Hicks: Yeah. I feel like it would just empower me even more to help empower my community even more. Okay. Yeah.
[00:22:53] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Great. I love that. Okay, so just to recap, so Spencer, you're gonna work on, when you're cutting checks to other folks, reminding yourself that it's staying in the community and you're giving back and you're keeping other people employed, et cetera, whatever feels good for you, that aligns with that value of relationship and connectedness. And then for you, Emma, checking back in with what I'm hearing is your why behind your business is also a beautiful why to pay yourself and pay yourself 30% of what comes in as you build out this brand. Mm-hmm.
[00:23:28] Spencer Hicks: Yeah, great. The funny thing is when we say cut checks, we literally mean cutting physical checks.
[00:23:33] We're very old-fashioned in the way of how we pay bills. I don't trust that online bill pay and all that. I call and order checks at the bank and they, Spencer, why do you go through so many checks? Because we cut a check for everything.
[00:23:45] Emma Hicks: Yeah.
[00:23:46] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Well, you're actually quite smart to do that, Spencer, because again, our poor brains haven't caught up to technology, so we do better with checks and physical money.
[00:23:55] Yeah. In terms of being more mindful about our spending. So, yeah, actually good for you.
[00:24:01] Spencer Hicks: Yeah. Well, it's pain in the butt to write outta checks, write out a check, so yeah, you don't have to write it out for, for $4 or something like that, you know?
[00:24:07] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, well, thank you guys so much for coming on, and I can't wait to hear how everything goes as you guys continuing your businesses.
[00:24:16] Emma Hicks: Thank you, Lindsay.
[00:24:17] Spencer Hicks: Thank you.
[00:24:17] Lindsay Bryan-Podvin: All right, take care. Well, what did you think of that episode with Emma and Spencer? I think it was a great illustration of how we can really start working on changing our negative thoughts. In their case, they were doing a lot of amazing things and they had a really healthy relationship.
[00:24:38] When it came to their money, they just had to start working on tweaking some of the the negative thoughts that they were had running through their head. So if you enjoyed this power session and you are interested in working with me, you should really consider joining me in boundless. Boundless is my six month group coaching program for high earning couples.
[00:25:00] And in addition to monthly educational modules, each couple who joins Boundless gets 2 45 minute sessions with me, and they're kind of like today's power session with Emma and Spencer, except that we have a little bit more time together. We get 45 minutes. Together and we get to do that twice, and each couple gets to decide when they want to book those.
[00:25:22] So while I recommend that each couple does them at the beginning and end of the six month group coaching program, you can kind of schedule them when you want. So if you're interested in working with me in that capacity, head to my website, www.MindMoneyBalance.com/Boundless and you can go ahead and get some additional information there about how to apply for the program.
[00:25:46] It's application-based so that each couple who joins is really there to do the work and to cheer on other couples that are in that group. So again, that website is www.MindMoneyBalance.com/Boundless and you can get all the information there about how to apply. I'm going to be starting a new cohort very soon in May of 2020, so make sure to get in your application soon so you can hopefully join me there.