106: Jane Travis Shares How to Attract Clients with a Private Practice Niche
For this podcast and related guest post, I've brought in Jane Travis to share her tips on niching, getting visible, and how to get started. A concise niche helps you stand apart from other therapists and helps your ideal client find you. Enjoy!
Counseling Areas of Interest
Instead of thinking about a tiny corner of the counseling market, Jane encourages therapists to replace the word "niche" with "what I have a special interest in."
Some questions Jane includes to ask yourself about when finding a niche or an area of interest:
What drew you into practicing therapy in the first place?
Who are the clients you have a passion for helping?
What types of clients are you exceptionally gifted in helping?
Jane also shares that instead of thinking about niches in terms of a demographic, it's more about considering the psychographics of a niche you're passionate about. She says a demographic is more surface-level characteristics about a person, such as age, where they live, or relationship status. Conversely, a psychographic goes much deeper and aligns more with the niches Jane talks about as a counselor and coach. She says a psychographic encapsulates deeper characteristics, such as their beliefs, emotions, identities, and preferences.
Think about the clients you love to work with.
What are their aspirations, desires, and areas of resilience?
What challenges have they experienced that they want guidance or support in overcoming?
What feelings are they experiencing that they worry are "abnormal" or "weird" that you know you can help normalize and validate?
Jane says this approach to niching can be more powerful and taps into therapists' passions for their clientele. If you don't allow yourself to follow your therapeutic passion as you market your private practice niche, you start experiencing the "shoulds" of niching, which can lead to imposter syndrome.
How to Market A Private Practice Niche
All marketing works, but the trick is finding what works for you. Don't get overwhelmed with the how when marketing your private practice niche! The practicalities of marketing are a learned set of skills. For example, you can learn how to update a website, create graphics for social media, or how to publish a blog. Jane says that the fear of visibility, the mindset of imposter syndrome, gets in the way of marketing your practice.
A key, says Jane, is figuring out where you like to hang out. Jane has an interest in LinkedIn and Instagram. While she and I agree on Instagram and dislike Facebook, I prefer to market via my website (such as blogs and podcasts like this!)
When you start marketing your practice, you are already beginning to build a therapeutic alliance with potential clients. Potential clients who land on your website, subscribe to your newsletter list, or follow you on social media have an idea of your style, your voice, and how you'd be as their therapist.
Notice that Jane did not say that a private practice niche is tied to the fee you charge, whether or not you have a sliding scale or the insurance you accept.
Advice To Implement A Therapy Niche
Jane's best advice for implementing a therapy niche? Just start. It's ok to start broad and narrow down over time. Low self-esteem could niche further into implementing and maintaining boundaries, people-pleasing, assertive communication, or self-care. Jane calls this approach a "seedling niche," where you plant a seed of something potentially broad like grief & loss, anxiety, relationships, and self-esteem, and over time it can get more specific.
It's also ok to be super specific and broaden your niche a bit over time.
Getting comfortable saying, "if you need some help, I'm here." Whether implementing your niche or expanding your visibility, Jane says it's important to remember that visibility helps your ideal clients.
Journaling Questions for Therapists
When it comes to what's making it hard for you to niche down and market your practice, it can be helpful to answer some journaling questions as a therapist.
The key to answering the questions is to be compassionate and non-judgemental. Let your mind (and hand!) flow freely to unearth what might be keeping you stuck. Set aside a few minutes, turn on some of your favorite music, and answer the following prompts:
What are these feelings of fear of being seen about?
Why am I anxious to niche down my practice?
How is imposter syndrome showing up and getting the way of marketing my private practice niche?
Is self-sabotage trying to protect me from being seen?
About Jane Travis
Podcaster, Author, Counsellor, and Private Practice Coach
About Jane Travis
Jane Travis was a counselor and supervisor successfully running her private practice Reflections Counselling Lincoln for 14 years. Over time she learned about marketing, branding, niches, blogging, websites, social media, pricing, planning, and multiple income streams through her business Grow Your Private Practice. She’s helped hundreds of therapists to ditch the overwhelm and start attracting clients and move towards work/life balance- not with a 'one size fits all approach but by helping counselors find the right marketing activities for them in her “Grow Your Private Practice Club.” Jane lives in beautiful Lincoln with her 2 boys and rescue dog. And is often found with her feet up and eating Maltesers.
Resources From The Episode
Jane's FREE guide to attract more clients by helping, not selling.
My episode on Jane’s Grow Your Private Practice Show, about coping with financial anxiety as a counsellor or therapist.
Fear of Visibility and how to get comfortable with vulnerability.
Imposter Syndrome & Content Overload
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Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Welcome back to the Mind Money Balance podcast. I am thrilled to have Jane Travis on as a guest today to talk with us all about niching and visibility. So if you don't know Jane, Jane Travis was a counselor and supervisor successfully running her private practice Reflections Counselling Lincoln for 14 years. Over time, she learned very often by her own mistakes about marketing, branding, niches, blogging, websites, social media, pricing, planning, and multiple income streams. She's helped hundreds of therapists to ditch the overwhelm and start attracting clients and move toward work life balance, not with a one size fits all approach, but by helping counselors find the right marketing activities for them in her Grow Your Private Practice Club. Jane lives in beautiful Lincoln with her two boys and rescue dog, and is often found with their feet up eating Maltesers. So again, Jane, welcome. I'm really happy to chat with you about niching and visibility.
Jane Travis
Oh, Lindsay, thank you so much for inviting me on. It's absolutely great to be here. And hello to everybody listening.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yes. And it's so funny. The last time we chatted, I shared with you that I never heard of Maltesers. And then I walked into my local market and I kid you not they were the first things on the shelf for like some sort of seasonal special, but I never had seen them before. So anyway.
Jane Travis
Did you--Did you try them?
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
I did not. I didn't, next time, next time. Maybe I'll have to wait until I'm in the UK to try them then there'll be proper. Yeah, yes.
Jane Travis
Yeah, the real deal.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah, real deal. Right. By the time they get here stateside, who knows where they've gone? So?
Jane Travis
Absolutely.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Oh, yeah. So I wanted to bring you on. Because I mean, you're such a wealth of knowledge. And I really appreciate your approach about doing things that feel good for individual counselors, instead of saying, just do this, and then everything will be peachy. And one thing that I really have loved listening to lately is your take on niching and visibility. So let's just start from the top. Can you just share with us kind of how you define therapists and niching or counselors and niching? How do you define a niche?
Jane Travis
How do you define a niche? That's a good question. That's a good question. And I think sometimes we can think of a niche as being something that is quite, quite small, something that's a real small speciality, something that we can say, right, this is my speciality, this is my little corner of the market. But for me, I just see a niche as being I liked to use the term "special interest in" and I think for a lot of therapists, it helps to rather than feel as though we've got to put ourselves in some sort of tiny little category to just say, right, okay, what is it I feel passionately about? And how can I help people who are struggling with the issues that I feel passionately about? And I think, you know, like, like you've just said, one of the things that I like to do is help people to see that, to market your practice, it really is about working out what feels right for you to do, what feels right? You know, there are lots of people out there saying, you know, some people say, you've got to do this, you've got to do that. The way I see it is all marketing works. Everything works, you know, you can try lots and lots of different things, and they will all work. But the trick is finding the right thing for you. And for me, that starts with having a niche. And I think the thing about niching is it is about passion. It's about what is it that drew you into working with people in the first place? What is the place? What is it that drew you into therapy in the first place and very often I think it is about passion, it's a passion for helping people with a particular thing. And for me having a niche it's about being able to work with the thing that we feel particularly passionate about and I think that when we do that, it just changes everything that we do.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah, so what I heard there is kind of a reframe around niching instead of it being put yourself into a box you you reframe the question to be Who are you passionate about helping and why? And when I hear you say that it, I can almost feel my shoulders relax a bit instead of feeling like I have to tick off a bunch of boxes. It's about what matters to me and why and who can I help and why. And tell me you kind of hinted at it but I'd love to know specifically, what are things that counselors get wrong when they try to niche?
Jane Travis
What do people get wrong when they try to niche? Well, I think the main thing like like we've talked about, I think there's, there's almost a feeling as though we have to do--we put ourselves into a box, you know that there has to be a very, that a niche has to be a small specific thing. And sometimes, you know, one of the things people get wrong is that they look at a demographic. So like, I want to work with women between 30 and 35, who are struggling with fertility or something like that. And that's, that's okay. But some, I just feel that sometimes it's about expanding your niche, looking at a bigger picture. So let me just give you an idea. When I talk about working with a niche that you feel passionately about, I think that makes everything different when it comes to marketing your practice. So if you feel passionately about something, it means that now I'm, I'm quite a shy person, surprisingly enough, massive introvert, if you see me going out for a drink, I'm probably quite relatively quiet. But when I start talking about like counseling, you know, when I start talking about marketing for therapists, that I feel so passionately about it, that I can talk about it for a while you can't shut me up, I get very passionate about it. And talking about it, I'm talking about what people could try what people don't do. And you know, all the different things they could talk about. And I just, it's like, I get caught up in it, and that passion comes out. And that comes across in everything that I say. And that's what happens when you have a niche that you feel really passionately about, it means that you're working with the sorts of things that you really, really feel excited about. So when you're talking about your niche, when you're talking about anything to do in your marketing, that kind of comes out in everything you say, whether it's what you're talking about on your website, whether it's talking about on social media, whether it's what you're talking about in blogs, because you love that subject so much and because you know, that's because if we're passionate about something we grab, we know about it, you know, we learn about it becomes something that we don't just learn, because we have to do it, we have shelf walls of book about books about this, we, you know, we just do it, because we love doing it. So that means that everything that you do, you will have this, this enthusiasm about you. And that's really attractive to people. So the right people will, you'll be attracting the right people, not by anything that you do specifically, but the fact that you have this passion, you know, just coming out of you will be attractive to those people. And they'll, they'll want to start following you, they'll gravitate towards you. So for example, you know, when I think about niching, one of the things that put like, like we've been saying, sometimes we can be thinking that that means we've got to just really close everything down and just become a massive expert in one thing. But what I like to do, especially when people first start getting into niching, for the first time is say, look, how about you have a niche that's actually a very broad subject, so that you don't feel uncomfortable--so that you don't feel anxious? Because I think something that can happen is especially if you're quite new to being a therapist, you can think well, how can I call myself an expert when I've only just started? I don't like calling myself an expert. And didn't my training say to me that in the counseling room, I'm not an expert, I'm there to facilitate the therapy, the client, who we classed as the experts, so it can make us feel a little bit anxious by saying that we're an expert. So what about if we drop the idea of being an expert and just say like, I'm just really interested in the subject, and I'm really interested in how I can help people to manage this subject. So for example, if you work with something like really quite a wide topic, like self esteem, for example, that can cover so many different things. So that could mean for example, that you talk about confidence, it might mean for example, you also are able to talk about anxiety because if you have a low self esteem it maybe suffer with anxiety, or if you struggle with anger, it may mean that you know, it impacts just your self, your self esteem. You can talk about boundaries, you can talk about things like people pleasing behaviors, you could talk about communication or assertiveness, or self care, or you know, there's things like past and present relationships. So all of those things, all of those really interesting things that that sort of can come under the heading of self esteem, you can still work with if you use self esteem as a niche. So I think one of the things that can sometimes happen is, we think, Alright, if I've got a niche, that means that I can only ever see somebody with that particular thing. But if you have quite a wide niche, then that can cover so many different aspects that it gives you that freedom to work with so many different things whilst focusing you down enough to make your marketing beats so much more effective. Does that make sense?
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Oh, it makes it makes perfect sense. So I took a couple of notes as you were talking, because I wanted to, to kind of summarize two things that I heard there that were really powerful and really important for therapists who are listening and who have struggled with a niche. So at the start, I heard you say that a mistake that a lot of therapists make when they're trying to niche is that they focus on demographics instead of psychographics. And what I mean by that is that when you Google, like how to how to create a niche, you're inevitably going to get this checklist of questions that might not translate to therapy, things like, Where does your ideal client live? How many cars does she own? What's her favorite food, and it's like, those are interesting factoids. But we're not speaking to what they are struggling with. And what you're talking about with psychographics is how the person is feeling and how they want to feel. And that is where we, as therapists and counselors can do a better job of niching. So instead of saying, Your 35 year old, newly divorced mom, which may be a thing, right, that's the demographic, but the psychographic is who is struggling with a new sense of loneliness and navigating a new identity as being a single parent. Okay, well, that is where the therapists can come in and go, Oh, I know how to speak to somebody struggling with identity concerns, and new onset grief and things like that. Those are the things I can really tap into. So the first mistake that I heard you reflect was, therapists tend, they need to focus on psychographics, and not so much on demographics when they're niching. And then the other thing that I heard was the importance of having a niche that really excites you and lights you up. And right, when you said that, oh, I have a bookshelf full of books I'm looking across at my bookshelf. And I have an entire row all about money, and relationships with money and women and money and, you know, feminism and money. And I'm like, oh, there it is. There's there's the thing. And what I heard is that your energy will show up much more passionate, and expansive, when it is something that you are interested in.
Jane Travis
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And something else that happens with niching is there's almost this feeling. If you don't, if you don't allow yourself to follow your own passions, then you can go down the route of I need to do what other people want me to do. And then the passion doesn't follow in the same way, then it's almost like it becomes a job. Because it's like, right, I've got to learn about this thing I've got to learn about I've got to get this CPD, I've got to go and get extra training. Whereas if you come from the more from what you want, if you I think if you're in practice, the whole beauty of being in practice is that you are self employed you in your own business, you can turn it into whatever you want it to be, you can work the hours that you want, you can work with the people that you want, in the ways that you want. And that to me is what drives me because you can make it fit in around other responsibilities. And so for me, the thing that drives me is always, always coming from a place of, I just feel that I have to do this, you know, this is something I do. It's almost like, even if I wasn't getting paid to do this, I would still love doing it. And I think that if you sort of if you're really interested in a particular niche in a particular subject, and it could be very broad, or it could be you know, very narrow that that doesn't really matter. What matters is if you really really love it, then you'll be able to your job just wanting to help people within that niche. So it means that you'll be driven to be writing the sort of blogs that people will really enjoy the sort of blogs that people really want to read that are going to help them. You're going to be going on social media talking about the things that people want to need to know or that are going to be helpful. And you're doing it from a place of I just want to help these people out. But the side effect of that is that those people will gravitate towards you, because you're giving them what they need. You're giving them help for the things that they're struggling with. And remember the people that see us and follow us on things like social media and blogs, very often they're not in the right place to actually go to counseling, they're on a journey. And the journey starts with, oh, I'm feeling a bit weird, but I don't really know what it is. And then it goes through. This is starting to feel a bit more serious. And then it's like, okay, I need some help. What do I need to do? Do I need to go and get some hypnotherapy? Do I need to go to the doctors? Do I need to go to counseling, and then after that, it's right, I'm gonna go to counseling, who do I want to choose? So the person that comes to you to get some therapy is going on a journey. So it's about being able to speak to them in those different places of that journey. So if they're at the beginning of that journey, you're helping them with normalizing what they're feeling, you know, maybe you're feeling a bit anxious about this, but it's normal to feel anxious, here are a few things you could try. And it might be that you have little bits and pieces that you can share for people in those different places on the journey. So when they are ready to choose somebody to get counseling with, then you're going to be top of mind, because they've been watching you, they've been following you and they've been listening to you and paying attention to you. So it's, you know, that passion comes through. And remember that the work that we're doing in the counseling room, is based on the therapeutic relationship therapeutic alliance. So all of the work that you're doing in your marketing, is starting to form that therapeutic alliance. So when they do speak to you on the phone to say, Hi, can I make an appointment, they've already got a really good sense of who you are, through what they've seen, when they followed you. They've already got a really good sense of, you know, how you are how you speak, you know, all of that. So I think that the, the marketing, as well as helping people to come to helps people that are on that journey. And when people are ready to reach out to you, it means that therapeutic alliances are already started being formed. So that then that means when they do come, when they make that step and come to therapy, the chances are of that therapeutic relationship already being formed. And therefore the quality of the therapy, the the success of the therapy is more likely to happen, because people are already engaged with you.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
That is so powerful. So as we were kind of talking about niching, you drew a beautiful through line to how niching helps us to become visible and to show up, and how showing up with our passion with our excitement for the type of work that we want to do helps potential clients and even people who never become our clients to have their pain or their stress points validated and to see that they're not alone. And it's also starting to kind of plant the seeds for if you're ready, I'm here, when you're ready. This is how we can work together, which is all about visibility is showing up because it's great to have a niche, but you have to tell people what your niche is. Oh, go ahead. Yeah.
Jane Travis
Well, I was gonna say that takes away that icky feeling about having to sell ourselves as well. Because if I've got, I don't know, if your listeners are interested, I've got a free resource called Attract More Therapy Clients by Helping, Not Selling because I'm really, again, I'm really passionate about this. If you're out there helping people, then that becomes something that makes being visible, more,
Jane Travis
more easy for us to do. I think, you know, so many of us really struggle with the idea of I've got to be visible, I've got to say I'm an expert. And that's like, no, no, who wants to do that? Not many of us, it feels icky. But if we go out there, and we're just saying, right, how can I help people today? What can I do to help people today? It means we're not having to sell ourselves, but people will naturally see us and will become known as an authority within that niche. Even if it's a very broad niche, you'll become known as an authority within that. So you don't really have to do a lot of selling it kind of just happens naturally. So when people are ready to come see you that you'll kind of be a natural choice without you having to do any hard sell. And doesn't that feel better? It feels so much better.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah. Well, I will, I will make sure to link to that reference in the show notes. So if you don't know what I'm talking about with show notes, wherever you're listening to your podcast, click on information. And there will be a link that takes you to my blog, there's a transcript of today's episode, and there will be a link to the resource that Jane shared. So you're talking about how being visible and in alignment with your niche helps you to not feel like you're selling, it helps you to just show up in a way where you are helping. Outside of this salesy fear, what are some other things that get in the way of counselors being visible?
Jane Travis
That's a great question, isn't it? And I think it can be it's a big question. Yeah, I think there are two answers to that. One. I think one answer to that is what can get in the way of us being visible. I think that in training, like I said, Before, in training, we're taught that the expert in the counseling room is the client, and it's our job to facilitate that. And how many times I don't know about, I don't know if this has happened to you, I know that I'm from the UK. So we maybe have a slightly different sort of just way about us, generally, I think, but here in the UK, very often somebody will finish the the therapy, and they might have a very successful ending. And the therapist is going, Oh, no, you did all the work, it's fine. So I think sometimes sometimes for us, as therapists, we're used to the fact that we're making the client the star, you know, the client is the star, our attention is on the, on the client, and that's fine in the counseling room. But outside of the counseling room, we have to get a little bit of balance there so that we are able to say, we don't have to say come to me, I'm the best counselor in the world. But we can say, you know, if you need some help, I'm available. If you need some help, I can help you, if you need some help have a word with me, you know, we have to sot of start being comfortable and losing the anxiety around being able to just say, you know, if you need some help, I'm here. And I think part of that visibility is really recognizing you don't have to do hard sell, because that's one of the really difficult things. And I hear people very often saying, Oh, God, no, I'm just not very good at selling myself. And my answer to that is what just don't sell yourself, you know, the thing that you're selling is the outcome that the client wants, you know, that's what they want, they don't need to know about us, it's not important that they know about me, it's important to know that I can help them to get them to that where they want to be. So that's one thing, it's kind of really, really being able to let go of that feeling that you have to sell yourself. Like I say, it's all about helping not selling. But I think that one of the things that ripp things that really feels very difficult is and you'll know this because what you do is all around money mindset. And I think mindset is just so enormous. And this is why this is such a massive, massive question. Because I believe that the practicalities of marketing and practice are pretty, I don't want to say simple because I don't want to minimize it, but I do think that the the practicalities of marketing or practice, marketing practice, are a set of skills that are possible to learn. So you can learn how to do a website, you can learn how to do social media, you can learn how to write a blog. But it's the mindset that holds people back. So when it's visibility, it's about the mindset. So I think that it's all about looking at right. Okay, what's going on for me when I'm worried about being visible when what's going on for me when I'm worried about niching? You know, because it's going to be something like, you know, there's going to be some fear going on, there's going to be some sort of self sabotage. So it could be that you have a bit of an impostor syndrome going on. And let's face it, imposter syndrome is completely normal. I mean, they do say that everybody has impostor syndrome, unless you like a psychopath or a narcissist. So, you know, it's kind of normal, but it's also this perfectionism, this procrastination, shiny object syndrome. You know, there's all of these different mindset issues. So, I think because sometimes as therapists because we've done so much work on ourselves because we've done so much work, helping other people with these sorts of things, then that means that we can sometimes be a little bit hard on ourselves when we struggle with these ourselves. So I would say that if you're struggling with visibility, the first thing is, you know, can you--can you maybe do some kind of maybe do some journaling around it, maybe you could talk to a friend about it, maybe you could, you know, really do a little, come at it from a very curious place, or a gentle place, a place of, right, okay, I said that I wanted to go on social media more, but I'm really struggling with that--I wonder what that's about? So rather than I'm so stupid, why can't I do this? Everybody else does this easily. Everybody else is making this work for them. If we can ditch that, and we can just go right? That's interesting. I wonder why when I said I wanted to do this, and now not doing it. And if we can really explore it from a very gentle place from a very open minded place and say, What is this? If I've got fears, what are those fears really about? It's only when we do that, that we can then say, well, are these fears still sort of applicable to me? And what can I do to help myself with that, because I struggle with impostor syndrome, I get it really, really badly. But I don't let it stop me. You know, sometimes it might mean that have to press pause until I do a bit of work on it. But it doesn't stop me. So the thing about fears is, you can still be successful whilst you have fears. So it's learning how to keep growing your practice, it's learning how to be visible, it's learning how to do it, not because you have no fear. But because you've learned how you can manage it. So the fears aren't actually stopping you. So for me, when it comes to issues about, you know, worrying about choosing a niche, or worrying about being visible, it all comes down to well, what's going on? Is there some self sabotage there? Or what are the fears? Because once you can really look at those, then you can protect yourself, then you can find a way through. So I guess it's the same with you and your money mindset issues, you know, what are those fears? What is that? What's going on? That's making you go oh, God, I can't do that.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Right, right.
Jane Travis
Until we really explore it, then we're in a position to protect ourselves moving forward.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Wow. Okay, so you said so many things there that I share with my audience that they might have heard before, but I think it bears repeating, which is just, it's okay to not feel totally comfortable. As we move into marketing and into visibility. We are not taught this stuff in school. And it can feel really different than saying, I'm going to take a backseat, I'm going to let the client lead. But in order for the client to lead in the therapy room, or to show up and be vulnerable, they have to know you exist. And by saying this is my niche, this is who I help, here's how you can work with me, that helps our client get into our room, and on the piece of fear and showing up. Like you said at the top of the episode today, you said, any marketing outlet will work. If you don't like social media, that's fine. You can write a blog. If you aren't into blogs, you can do a podcast, if podcasting isn't for you, you can do an email newsletter, there are so many different options. And you certainly don't have to do them all. So with their social media piece, especially if a if a counselor saying oh my gosh, I just--that's just not me. It's not who I am. I often ask them where they hang out on social media, because maybe they're not on Tik Tok or Instagram. But maybe they're on Pinterest, or maybe they're on Twitter, or maybe they're on LinkedIn, I don't know. But finding a platform that feels good for them can also help with that imposter syndrome. And I find the same, the same thing for me. I learned that for me, Facebook doesn't feel good. And I kept trying to kind of shoehorn myself into being on Facebook, because that's what all the experts said I needed to do. And as soon as I left Facebook, I was like, Oh, my marketing feels so much better, because I'm not doing it on the platform. That just doesn't work for me. And it's not to say to your point that Facebook doesn't work, it absolutely does. But if you don't like showing up there and hanging out there, that will show up like you were talking about with the passion piece. If you're showing up on a platform that you don't really like, then that passion will be really diminished and it won't come through.
Jane Travis
Well, absolutely. Because if you don't like that, that platform, when you sit down for a cup of coffee, you're not going to think brilliant. I've got a couple of seconds to go on this, like TikTok or something. Right, right. You know, it's like well, I'll do something else because otherwise it feels like work but when you're doing it because you enjoy it. Then you do it because you enjoy it and that is literally such a game changer in really, really is. I think that--I think that if there's one thing that people take away from this, it's just please just learn yourself, what you enjoy doing. Because the matter what it is, there's a way of using that, to help you to grow your practice, you know, whether you like going on social media or not, whether you prefer in person, whether you go to networking, whether you want to go and do go and be interviewed on the radio, or, you know, there's, there's just so many things that you can do, whether it's online or offline. But really, the more that you can do something that you really enjoy, the more you can make your business like a paid hobby, the more you're just going to do it because you enjoy it. And that's, that is the game changer, because otherwise, it just send up being just ends up being a nine to five job like any other job. So this is the thing, I think that makes it change from being a job into being a real passion project that you love doing. And if you did win the lottery, you'd think, oh, no, I don't want to stop doing this. Because you just love it. You know, that's, that's what we're aiming at. That's what we're aiming for. Because isn't that what's what life is about doing the thing that you love doing? And there are ways to make that happen. So have the courage to do that have the courage to think about right, okay. You know, try the thing, try social media, and try the different platforms? Don't do them all just do one at a time. Yes, audio, because going on all of them is just going to be confusing, but absolutely, but try it and have an open mind. And if you really, really hate it, as long as you're doing something else, then that's fine.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
So we've covered a lot about why it's so important to niche and why it's so important to be visible. So let's say there's a listener out there who's like, yes, this sounds really exciting. I have some ideas about niching. I have some ideas about visibility. Where do I start? What would you say to them are some of the first steps to start implementing carving out their niche and showing up?
Jane Travis
Okay, well, what I do is--I've got a membership. And so I talk about niching, within my membership. And I used to do a lot of work around niching, I used to do service helping people with their niche, because it's one of the things I love talking about. It's one of those things that you can't shut me up about. To be honest. This is definitely one of my passions. So and it's something I knew, I know, people really struggled with this idea of Oh, my God, am I going to put myself in a box? Is it going to turn people off? Does that mean I'm going to push clients away? And I wanted to find a way to help people to be comfortable and happy choosing a niche, I thought, right? How can I help people? And I thought, right, let's have a look at what people generally come to counseling for what people come to therapy for. And there, I thought that we could put these different things in four main categories. So I thought, right, most people come to counseling, and this is like, you know, you could break it down no matter what they come to counseling with, I say counseling because in the UK. So there are issues around anxiety. So anxiety is huge, isn't it? So all sorts of issues around anxiety, confidence, people, all sorts of different things. There's grief and loss. So obviously grief being around bereavement, but loss is also around. I call it unwanted change. So that could be you know, in all sorts of different ways, relationships that could be relationships, romantic relationships, or parents or children, but issues to do with relationships, and then issues to do with self esteem. So how you feel about yourself, confidence, anything to do with that not feel good enough in some way. And I thought about it quite for quite a long time. And I thought I think that most people when they come get some help, broadly speaking, and I mean, very broadly speaking, you could put what they're coming for some help around into probably one of those that very often into more than one of those. So what I decided to do is I decided to make something that I call a seedling nation, because my my business is called Grow Your private practice. I do a lot but a lot of wordplay around like gardening type things. So I thought I'd sort of use this a seedling niche. So this is like a baby niche really, that you can use just to sort of start getting more focused in your marketing, but then over time this can grow and develop into any way you want it to go. So like I say, if somebody comes to counseling to do with anything to do with anxiety, and that can include lots and lots of different things. Then if you like working with pick things to do with anxiety, you might say well So I'm going to have a seedling mesh around anxiety. Or it could be that you say I want to work with grief and loss or relationships or self esteem. And the beauty of these four like very, very broad niches is that it doesn't in any way say that if you're working with, say anxiety that you can't work with self esteem, because all of these things are so interrelated, you know, self esteem, links to anxiety, it can link to relationships, it can link to grief and loss. So by choosing one of these big wide niches, it means that you never feel as though you're hemmed in. So if you're talking about any of these different, like broad terms, these broad niches, you can still talk about lots and lots of things, you can still talk about those other kinds of niches. So for example, if you are talking about, if you choose anxiety, as a broad niche, you could be talking about how anxiety affects grief and loss, how anxiety affects relationships, how anxiety affects your self esteem. But equally, you can talk about how self esteem can affect your anxiety, and how relationships affect your anxiety. So you can kind of do, I don't know if that makes sense, you can kind of look at it from both ways. Sure. So it means that you're never ever going to feel really hemmed in. But over time, you can either narrow it down if that's if you see something that you particularly feel gravitated towards, or you can still keep it very broad. There's nothing wrong with keeping it broad, there are plenty of people that are anxiety counselors, you know, there are plenty of people that work with self esteem, there are plenty of people that work with these as a bonafide a niche without ever niching it down further. So I think by extending your niche to something that's quite wide, means that you don't have that anxiety of feeling that you pushing people away. Because I think the example that we talked about earlier was what if it was somebody who was 30 to 35, and just separated from the party? Well, that person when we think about it, what is it that they might be feeling? Well, it might be that they are feeling lots of anxiety, because now they're out in the world, they don't know what they're going to do, you know, they could have a lot of anxiety around that, they could be feeling a lot of grief and loss about that, because they've had an unwanted change, loss of a relationship, they might need help around relationships. Because that relationships come to them, they've probably got a lot of things that they might want to learn from that they might be worried about going into another relationship. Or it might be to do with self esteem, it might be that that relationship breaking down has impacted their self esteem. Or it might be that low self esteem is why the relationship broke down. So the person will choose somebody according to how they uniquely feel, right? Because, you know, you could have 1000 different people at that age and in a different sort of version of that. And how they identifies feeling will depend on them personally. Does that make sense?
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah, yeah. Well, what came up for me imagery when I was imagining a seedling niche and how you said it could be as over time, it could grow into the something more narrower could grow and continue to be broad. I'm not a gardener. So I don't know plant names. But I was imagining for something like where you start out with anxiety, and then you really hone in and realize, well, yeah, it's sort of anxiety. But it really is about identity and self esteem or whatever, right? And we're narrowing narrowing narrowing, it becomes like a beanstalk. Like one thing that just kind of shoots up versus, you know, kind of more of like a flowering bush or something where you're like, Well, we do this and this and this and this and this, but the root cause is all the same. And I think that gives therapists some permission to try it out. So if I, if I could reflect on the next step for people to take what I really heard you say, Jane, is to just start to just start your niche to see how it feels and to give yourself permission to grow or narrow your niche as you move on. You don't have to have it perfect right away. Is that Is that a fair reflection?
Jane Travis
I think that's an absolutely fair reflection. Yeah, beautiful. The beauty of having the niche is, for me less to do with the work you do with the clients because the work you do with your client, because they're all individual, once they're in the counseling room with you. They'll be talking to you all about their past and all their you know everything so that there'll be a unique individual, but it's getting them to the counseling room and if they can identify with what you're saying. They're going to choose you to come and talk about all those, all that lots and lots of unique stuff that's going on for them. So yeah, just take, take a step, choose one of those things and just just get started.
Jane Travis
Okay, right. Well, you can find me I have a podcast as well. My podcast is called the Grow Your Private Practice Show. So if you just do a search on your favorite podcasting app, and I've got a website, JaneTravis.co.uk, I've got a membership site, which is obviously helping therapists with marketing and that is Grow Your Private Practice. It's dot co.uk. Those GrowYourPrivatePractice.co.uk. Come and find me on LinkedIn. I want you to it's Jane Travis, Jane without a Y. It's @GrowYourPrivatePractice on Instagram, but I'm everywhere. So come and say I'd love I'd really love it. If people came and said, Hi, that would be fantastic.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah, I will make sure that people can connect with you. And go ahead.
Jane Travis
I do--I've got a book as well. I've got this book. So if anybody wants to grab that as well.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
We have a book. We have a free training. You know, you're on LinkedIn on Pinterest, you have your podcast. Sidebar, what is your favorite social media app to show up on?
Jane Travis
Well, I'm tell--
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
I'm trying to wrap it up. And I'm like, so curious.
Jane Travis
Well, I tell people, one of the big things one of the big bugbears I have is just be on one social media platform at a time and get good at it and then go somewhere else. Sure, but I have two that I just can't seem to decide between. I love Instagram. I'm a late adopter of Instagram, but I love LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is great for conversations. So I'm kind of kind of equal between those. I just really like those like you're not really a big fan of Facebook.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah. All right. So LinkedIn and Instagram love. I'd love to hear things that are a little bit different. So thanks for sharing all of your wisdom today, Jane, this was such a lovely conversation and I know our listeners are going to have some great next steps and, and good takeaways, and we'll be sure to connect with you over on social.
Jane Travis
Thank you so much for having me. It's been absolutely wonderful coming here and talking to you. And yeah, it'd be lovely if anybody came over and said hi. Thank you
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Beautiful kind of words to tie it up, just take that first next step and get started. And Jane, for folks who maybe are hearing your voice for the first time, where can they find you outside of today's podcast?