88: Having a Teletherapy Practice: Is it Right For You?
After two years of living in a pandemic, more therapists and allied healthcare private practice owners consider opening a teletherapy practice, pivoting full-time to one, or keeping their online business even after restrictions lift. In this podcast and corresponding post, I'll cover:
The effectiveness of teletherapy
Who can become a teletherapist
Cross-state licensure reciprocity
Questions to ask yourself about whether or not teletherapy makes sense for you.
What is Telehealth Therapy or Teletherapy?
Telehealth therapy is a therapy conducted over the phone or video, where the therapist and the patient are in different physical locations. Teletherapy data collection started in the 1960s. So while teletherapy isn't new, there was a massive jump in demand at the start and throughout the pandemic. I'll use the terms "telehealth therapy" and "teletherapy" interchangeably in this post.
Effectiveness of Teletherapy
According to David Mohr, Ph.D., in most cases, phone and video-based teletherapy services are just as effective as face-to-face therapy when it comes to 1-on-1 therapy. There was a stigma that certain disorders couldn't be treated via telehealth in the past. However, in a meta-analysis, researchers found that teletherapy was as effective for the disorders of depression, anxiety, PTSD, eating disorders, and substance use. At the time of this podcast and blog post, the data doesn't hold up for the effectiveness of text-based therapy.
There are, however, some populations you have to be mindful of when providing teletherapy. If you work with people aged 10-19, preliminary research found that this age group tended to do better with shorter session durations and more frequent appointments than adults (Burgoyne and Cohn, 2020). This might look like seeing a teenager client on a Monday and Thursday for 30- or 45-minute sessions instead of the traditional weekly psychotherapy hour. The same 2020 study by Burgoyne and Cohn found for couples and families, or in situations where there are multiple people in a single therapy session, the therapist might have to take a more active role in managing communication flow and be more directive about who has the virtual floor.
Regardless of the population you serve, there are some logistics that I've found helpful in providing teletherapy. Make sure you and your client(s) have a quiet, safe, and private space to do therapy from. For some folks, this could be a bedroom or office; for others, it's a conference room at work or a car safely parked. Invite clients to move around, turn off their video, or eat during the session. I like to have my video "view self" or "self-view" turned off as it feels more authentic to a face-to-face session. When I had my video on, I'd find myself distracted by looking at myself. Investing in a white noise machine for clients and therapists who have shared or thin walls can add another layer of privacy. Nowadays, a white noise app or playlist is easily accessible from a smartphone.
How To Become a Telehealth Therapist
Suppose you are a licensed therapist in your state; congratulations! You are eligible to provide therapy services via telehealth. Getting certified as a therapist means finishing all requirements to become a practicing clinician:
Finishing grad school.
Completing an internship or practicum.
Earning required hours.
Sitting for your respective exams.
Like any other business, you need to do to become a teletherapist. You need to get an EIN, open a separate business bank account, have a specialization/niche you work with, have a professional website. When you have an online counseling practice, you need to be marketing yourself online. If you don't have a website, at the bare minimum, get on therapy directories, and get comfortable with online marketing. There are many HIPAA-compliant telehealth platforms you can choose from when it comes to technology. Most professions advise against using FaceTime, Skype, or GoogleMeet for teletherapy services.
Teletherapy Reciprocity & Salary
Telehealth therapists should earn just as much money as face-to-face therapists in private practice. Notice I said, "in private practice." Telehealth therapists' salaries will be much lower when working for a teletherapy app like Better Health, Talk Space, or similar telehealth therapy platforms because those services take a more significant cut of the therapist's money. I've talked about that in length in episode 64: Private Practice vs. Agency Work vs. Therapy Apps.
Something to consider with an online therapy practice is state reciprocity. Depending on the therapists' licensure, other states may recognize or "reciprocate" a therapist's current license. For example, if you are a psychologist, I'd recommend looking into PsyPact. PsyPact is the Psychology Interjurisdictional Compact (PSYPACT). It's an interstate governing body designed to facilitate the practice of telepsychology across state boundaries. Joining PsyPact allows psychologists to have their license recognized by many others, allowing them greater accessibility to clients. At the time of this podcast, no such compact exists for LPCs, LLPCs, or LMSWs. If you hold one of those licenses, you'll want to google your license, plus the state you are licensed in, plus the state you are interested in getting reciprocity from to learn about the necessary licensing steps needed. As an MSW, I wish there was LMSW reciprocity across state lines, and I imagine other disciplines would want LPC or LLPC state reciprocity.
Should You Have a Virtual Private Practice?
If you are considering having a virtual private practice, there are seven questions you can ask yourself to determine if an online private practice is right for you.
Do you have a quiet and private space in your home? If so, it makes it a bit easier to set up your virtual practice from home.
Do you need more flexibility in your work? In other words, does commuting somewhere cause an additional undue burden? Having a virtual office gives you more time back in your day since you aren't spending your time commuting to and from a physical therapy office.
Is keeping overhead low for your practice important for you? If you are starting in private practice or are newly licensed, not having to pay for physical office space could be a great way to test the waters of private practice. It also could be good for you if you want to start your private practice on the side.
Are you comfortable addressing tech hiccups and pivoting as needed? With teletherapy, there will be technical issues. I give all of my clients a 15-minute grace period to connect to Wi-Fi, login, or troubleshoot on their end before I consider them a no-show or same-day cancellation. I find most tech issues can be solved in about 15 minutes and am comfortable with a last-minute pivot to a phone-based session if needed.
Do you have a chronic illness? Do your clients have chronic illnesses, are disabled, or immunocompromised? Having a virtual practice could be easier for you or your clients as it offers more flexibility.
Are you licensed in an area with a high demand for therapists? Or where there is a low number of therapists? You may have greater access to clientele if therapists are in high demand and you have a virtual practice.
Do you have a unique niche? If you specialize in a particular area, having an online practice might better fit you.
Disadvantages of Teletherapy
There are potential disadvantages of teletherapy as a clinician considering pivoting to online practice. Having a teletherapy practice isn't suitable for everyone. Opening an online counseling practice might not for you if:
You see a large population of at-risk clients. You could have higher recidivism rates, no-show rates, or have to be more worried about the physical safety of your clients, making teletherapy too high-risk.
You crave the in-person healing and energy work. Even though I love online therapy, I don't mean to downplay the genuine differences that in-person treatment can have. There is a therapeutic benefit to in-person care that you or your clients crave.
You live in a space where there isn't a lot of privacy or have access to solid Wi-Fi. If privacy and quick internet access aren't available, having an online practice probably isn't wise.
Online Therapy Practice Help
If you are a teletherapist with a virtual private practice and are struggling with filling your telehealth practice, I'd invite you to join me in my small group coaching program, Grow a Profitable Practice From the Inside Out. I run this program throughout the year, and past participants have shared that it "was more than worth it for the self-growth, business growth, and mindset." Read through the program details and consider applying if you are ready to have loving support and accountability as you sustainably grow your online therapy practice. We'll cover money mindset, fee-setting, adhering to boundaries, niching, writing your website for SEO, and how to practice self-care.
-
Maybe it's this most recent wave of COVID that has people wondering if a therapist will ever be back in the office with our clients. But I've seen an increase in people asking about the future of teletherapy and whether or not if they are recently graduating from their programs are thinking about starting a private practice if they should just do a teletherapy practice or if they should have an in-person practice. And I think all of those things are worth addressing. So in today's podcast, I'm going to cover just some of the light data on the effectiveness of teletherapy. Who can be a telehealth therapists special considerations on deciding if having starting or transitioning to a teletherapy practices for you and also some downsides of tele therapy or considerations if maybe Telo therapy isn't for you.
So let's start at the top what is telehealth therapy or teletherapy? It's exactly what it sounds like. But I'll define it anyway. It's therapy that is the exact same as face-to-face therapy except for the face-to-face part. It is therapy that's conducted over the phone or video where the therapist and patient are in different physical locations, data on teletherapy started being collected in the 1960s. So while there's a huge jump in demand during the start of the pandemic a couple of years ago, teletherapy in and of itself is not new. And I think when people are considering whether or not to transition to a telehealth practice or whether or not to transition or to go back to the office, it's worth kind of talking about the effectiveness of teletherapy. And one more thing, I'll use the terms telehealth therapy and teletherapy interchangeably, there might be a slight difference in the two but I don't know. And I find myself using both. So I don't want you to get confused as I talk through it.
So let's talk through the effectiveness of teletherapy. What we know is, again, we've got 50-60 years of data on phone-based interventions. And we've got 20+ years of data on video interventions. And what we know is that both teletherapy using phone or using video is just as effective in most cases as face-to-face therapy. However, the data just doesn't hold up for text-based therapy. And there could be a number of reasons for it. But off the top of my head and not based on scientific research, my guess is that A. it's just too new of a technology to have an understanding of how those interventions work. There has been some research done on short term text to kind of check in on people who have endorsed having suicidal ideation or suicidal behaviors as these quick kind of checking points. But we don't have good long term data on the impact and effectiveness of text based therapy again, my guess is that it's because it's such a new technology. We don't know necessarily where the client is when they're texting, are they sitting on the couch next to their partner and their partner is a part of their problem are they you know, at a park watching their child play and they're experiencing postpartum depression, you know what's going on when they pick up the phone or pick up that mobile device and are texting their therapists we just don't know. But what we do know is that again, phone and video is just as effective as face-to-face psychotherapy. And according to Dr. David Mohr, who's the director of the Center for Behavioral Intervention Technologies at Northwestern University, he says that what they found is not only is telehealth just as effective as face-to-face psychotherapy, retention rates are higher than face to face. There could be a ton of different reasons for this. But again, my guess is that it's just easier to fit into your day when you're not thinking about driving and parking and traffic and carving out time. Like I think about a lot of my clients who do teletherapy and they are able to, if they are back in the office, they're able to book out a conference room and do teletherapy with me privately at you know, two o'clock, whereas getting out of work from 1:30 to 3:30 just might not be as feasible as taking off a literal hour to do teletherapy. So there are a lot of reasons why I think retention rates might be higher as I think just the barrier to entry is much lower.
In terms of effectiveness techniques or teletherapy techniques. These are just some things that I have found to be helpful. I don't have data to back this up but as a person who has been practicing teletherapy since before the pandemic started, I can just share some things that I have found to be helpful. One is that I always invite my clients to turn off the self-view on whatever teletherapy platform they are using, I find that when I can see myself on the camera and on video, I find myself looking to see if like my hair sticking up funny, or if I'm making an empathic enough face. And it distracts me from actually being fully present with my client. And so I say the same thing to them, I say, you know, I find a lot of my clients like to turn off that self-view, so they can just see me and focus on me. And it's a bit more similar to what it would look like in face-to-face therapy and face-to-face therapy, we don't typically have like mirrors where we can see ourselves the entire time. So it just feels a little bit more similar to having a face to face communication. And I always give the client the option to like, lay down or be in their bed or sit or stand or walk around. The benefit of teletherapy is they don't have to be seated in an armchair across from me. They can be engaging in stimming behaviors if they need to, they can be engaging and moving around, I don't care if they eat or if they drink when they are in front of me. I have asked clients in the past not to use drugs or alcohol in front of me just because I share with them, Look, if you were in the office, I don't think you would necessarily light up a joint or pour yourself a beer. So I do ask that there is that boundary, of course, each therapist has to decide what makes sense for them. Other considerations are allowing your client to find privacy wherever they're able to find it, particularly for clients in the past who were adolescents or young adults, they might not feel comfortable doing teletherapy in their room, even if their doors closed and they have a good level of privacy. I found a lot of my clients like to be in their car not driving, safely parked it could literally be in their driveway. Or I've had some clients who get in the car, you know, five minutes before we meet and drive down to find like an open park and then they have this beautiful greenery in the background while we're doing our teletherapy session again safely parked in a car. Other ways to add a little bit more privacy if you're unable or your client rather is unable to get out of the house to do teletherapy is to turn on a white noise machine. And nowadays you don't need a physical white noise machine, you can download an app that is a white noise machine or turn on a Spotify playlist that's a white noise machine and invite them to put that near an area where there might be a shared wall or a door. Other effectiveness things to keep in mind is that when it comes to teens and children, specifically, people age 10 to 19 y/o review was done by Burgoyne and Cohn in 2020. That found that folks in that age range of 10 to 19 y/o tended to do better with shorter session durations with more frequent appointments. So for example, seeing a client on a Monday and Thursday, but only for a 30-minute session. They found that they had a harder time with those clients staying focus for the full therapeutic hour compared to adults. So that's something to keep in mind if you are working with that age population. In terms of disorder considerations. And the past there have been this stigma that for folks who had certain types of mental illness teletherapy just wasn't an option for them. But what researchers found is that individual therapy is just as effective as traditional face-to-face therapy for people who have diagnoses of depression, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, eating disorders, and substance use disorders. So there is an array of effectiveness for those different disorders. Whereas in the past, there used to be this stigma or this idea that, Oh, you know, individual therapy via teletherapy only really works with this subset of clients and it's just not true. Another consideration when thinking about the effectiveness of teletherapy is that when you have multiple people, it just can be trickier. So if you are a family or couples therapist, you need to think about how to manage multiple people across multiple devices. And if everybody's in the same room except you, there can also be an increased need of you the therapists managing communication flow and being more directive about who has the virtual floor. Again, this research was done by Burgoyne and Cohn in 2020 and they found that that was a little bit tricky, but not impossible. And they also found that when couples or families start therapy online, it's easier for them to maintain it versus starting therapy face to face and then transitioning online, which makes perfect sense to me. I think we all had that like whiplash when we had to transition to online. So those are some of the considerations of having a teletherapy practice.
In terms of how to become a telehealth therapist. Basically, if you're licensed as a therapist in the state, you are licensed to provide services. In good news, you already have everything you need to be a telehealth therapist. But like any other small business owner, if you are trying to have a teletherapy practice as your primary business, there are some things you need to do, you do need to get an EIN that's an employee identification number. That's basically your business's social security number for tax purposes. And also, when you are providing superbills, or if you are using insurance or accepting insurance, you need to make sure to have that. You need to have a separate business bank account. I've talked about that ad nauseam. But you need to keep your personal business finances separate. It's really important when you have an online therapy practice that you have a specialization or a niche that you work with seeing anybody and everybody is going to be really complicated versus if you have a really specific niche, because people are going to be finding you most likely online. So you need to show up when they Google for, you know, burnout prevention for millennial dads, they need to see you come up to the top of the page. Instead of just like therapy in Idaho like that's pretty broad and you probably won't come up if people are doing that which is why you also need to have a professional website or at the bare minimum, you need to get on a few therapy directories and definitely get comfortable with online marketing.
Now teletherapy reciprocity and telehealth therapists salary is something I want to spend a few moments on. In theory teletherapy therapist should make just as much money as face-to-face therapists if they are in private practice. Notice I said if they are in private practice, telehealth therapists' salaries will be lower when they are working for a third party service like a teletherapy app such as Better Health, Talkspace, or any of the other similar telehealth therapy platforms that are popping up these days. Because those services take a larger cut of what they are able to charge for therapy. I have talked about that in length in episode number 64, Private Practice versus Agency Work versus Therapy Apps. If you want to dig into a little bit more about that the TLDR--The too long didn't read version is that I find in most cases, therapists are better off starting their own private practice if they want to do exclusively online therapy than joining one of those apps. But again, I won't spend too much time on that. Now I just wanted to address the money piece since that's what I talk about here is money. The other thing to consider is reciprocity. When you have an online therapy practice, as I mentioned earlier, you are automatically licensed in whatever state you are licensed in. But there is a potential bonus of other states recognizing your current state's license or reciprocating your license. If you are a psychologist, I'd highly recommend checking out PsyPact--PSYPACT. PsyPact is the Psychology Interjurisdictional Compact, which is an interstate governing body designated to facilitate the practice of telepsychology across state boundaries. So when you apply and joins PsyPact, if you're a psychologist, it allows you to essentially be licensed in I think it's like 20 or 21 states right now. So let's say you are licensed in Arizona and you join PsyPact. All of a sudden, you can now see clients in 19 other states besides Arizona, at the time of this podcast, sadly, no such agreement or compact exists for LPCs, LLPCs, or MSWs. If you hold one of those licenses like me, I'm an LMSW, you'll want to Google your license plus the state you're in plus the state you're interested in getting reciprocity from to learn more about the necessary licensing steps needed. I played around with it and did things like LMSW license in Michigan, Illinois State reciprocity. Right, so that would be how it would look and then generally speaking, Google will populate an answer for what it would look like what steps I would have to take if I wanted to get my Illinois license in addition to my Michigan license. Now it's really a mess. If you are an MSW advocate out there a counselor advocate out there please do some advocating so we can get PsyPact going for our licenses. I am you know, kind of threadbare in terms of my energetic capacity to engage in those things, but I will have share out about it, I will happily sign the petition, I will happily make phone calls, if anybody knows something like that that is in the work, I think that is so needed to help increase care and reduce barriers for these other professions. I digress. But anyway, if you want to get licensed in other states, some of the steps from what I've seen are relatively simple, definitely a lot of bureaucracy and paperwork, but not necessarily hard. So I've seen, it could be as simple as uploading that you passed your boards or your test uploading, that you've done all of your hours and uploading that you have an active license in good standing. And then the other state basically reviews those three things and says Congratulations, you're now licensed in our state, meaning you can provide therapy to people in that state. Other state reciprocity is difficult, to pick on California, since they get a bad rap for having a lot of bureaucratic tape to get licensed somewhere like there, if you're not already licensed there, it's so much more of a pain in that you have to like sit for more classes and potentially retake your exams. And the other thing that I should mention about reciprocity, when you're applying for licensure outside of your state's jurisdiction is of course there is a cost associated with it. Usually, there's some sort of administrative fee or application fee that you have to think about, but it might be worth it.
So to answer the question, should you have a virtual practice? I don't know I'm not you (laughter). But I'll give you some examples of people who might be more likely to be excited about having a virtual practice. So let's start there. First, right at the top, do you have a quiet and private space in your home? If you are going to be providing teletherapy services, I don't recommend doing it if you have like really thin walls and really noisy neighbors, I don't recommend it. If you don't have access to quick WiFi or other types of privacy, that is something you are going to want to keep in mind. If you want more flexibility in your work, or in other words, does commuting somewhere cause additional undue burden for you? If so, then a Virtual Private Practice might make perfect sense for you. Is keeping overhead low for your practice important for you? Now, I say that as though somebody is gonna be like, No, I don't mind spending a lot of money on practice overhead. But I'm thinking about in terms of if you have, you know, $100-$300 to start up a private practice, it's going to be much more accessible for you to do a teletherapy practice at least a start before you are paying $600 to $1,500 a month for a private practice physical office space. So if keeping overhead low is important for you, then maybe a Virtual Private Practice Makes sense. Are you comfortable addressing tech hiccups? Does tech stress you out? Are you able to troubleshoot? Are you able to kind of recover? If your WiFi does go out? Are you able to quickly pivot to a phone-based session for that day? Are you able to comfortably uphold technology boundaries? I have a firm 15 minute no-show policy in place, including teletherapy. Because I believe that for most people, you're able to grab a phone, find the link or whatever within a 15 minute period. This is the same 15-minute policy that I had in place when I was in a physical office space. I gave everybody a 15-minute buffer to drive around the block and find parking or if there was construction. It gave everybody a little bit of safety and a little bit of a cushion there and I keep that same 15-minute cushion. But if somebody is running more than 15 minutes late, I have really firm boundaries and I'm not going to try and squeeze in a session to a shorter session time. So are you comfortable addressing tech hiccups and all of the boundaries that go along with it? A virtual practice also might be you if you have chronic illness or disabled or immunocompromised or if your client population tends to suffer with chronic illness is disabled or is immunocompromised. Why? It mean it feels pretty obvious but I will spell it out here. If you or your client population fits into those boxes. It is going to be so important for you to be able to be accessible and allow your clients to be in bed in the safety of not having to be exposed to germs or to literal physical barriers that get in the way of them getting into your office space. Having a chronic illness or serving a client base of people who have chronic illness, is disabled or immunocompromised, teletherapy can be a great way to be accessible to that particular population and understand the unique hiccups that come along with being in one of those groups. Another thing to consider of why you might want to have a virtual private practice is if you're licensed in an area with a high demand for therapists or a low number of therapists, I know it kind of sounds like the same thing. But I think they're different in that you might be in a metropolitan area where a lot of people need therapy, or you might be in a rural area where there aren't a lot of therapists. And so by having a virtual practice where you can provide teletherapy, you can potentially reach a greater swath of clientele. Instead of just serving a particular city or a particular, you know, 30-minute driving radius, you can potentially serve the whole state or as I mentioned earlier, if you're a psychologist and joins PsyPact, or you're an LMSW or LPC who has reciprocity with their license or another state, you can have multiple states that you have access to. And finally, something to think about is whether or not you have a unique niche. I will use my own story here. As a financial therapist, back when I was in person, I found that about 30% of my clients were virtual, because I was serving people all across the state of Michigan. And because I had such a unique niche, I would have people who lived four, six, eight hours away who wanted to work with me, who it obviously did not make sense for them to drive that amount of time to come in once a week for an hour-long session. So I was already having a good chunk of my clientele via teletherapy, before the world shutdown before the pandemic hit. Because I had that unique niche. It helped to inform the reason why I left a group practice and I left it in-person practice, because I saw the writing on the wall, that more and more people were going to be requesting teletherapy for financial therapy because it was such a unique niche. So if you serve a very unique population, getting online could be a huge boom for you and for your business.
Now, some disadvantages of teletherapy or considerations of like why teletherapy might not be for you. It might not be for you, if as I mentioned, you mostly see large families or you mostly see younger children or people who don't necessarily fit into the age bracket of having good outcomes with teletherapy. I don't think teletherapy is a great choice for therapists if they see a large population of at-risk clients, just because of the very real risk of potential high recidivism rates, dropout rates, no show rates and not really knowing where their mental health state is at and whether or not they have access to safety. If you do work with at-risk clients who are at risk of harming themselves, I think it's always worth starting out your teletherapy session by literally asking them like where are you physically located. So you can have a kind of like a map in your mind if something were to happen during that session that would cause you to need to intervene and call authorities or call their emergency service, or I'm sorry, their emergency contact, making sure you know where they're physically located. As I mentioned, you know, doing financial therapy, I didn't have a ton of high-risk clients. But let's say I had a client who was six hours away, I would want to know where they were literally located. I might say are you at your home today? Even if they're in their car? Are you in your home today? Are you at work today, and then I would know where they are located in the unfortunate event or the rare event that I thought they needed help I'd be able to direct authorities to their last known place, if needed. So that's maybe it's not a not for you, but it's definitely a consideration if that's the type of population you're seeing. It is not necessarily for you if you really crave the in-person healing and energetic work that happens from face-to-face work, I'm not going to sit here and say that teletherapy is the exact same it is not. But it is definitely not for you if that physical energy is really important to you. And I also don't think teletherapy practice is for you. If you live in a space where there's not a lot of privacy or there isn't access to strong WiFi. I mentioned that earlier and who it is for but I think it's just as important to note like, it might not be for you if you live in an apartment complex where you have loud neighbors, or if you have a bunch of roommates or if you share a room. It's just not logistically feasible to do that. If you live in an area where there isn't good access to strong WiFi, you need to be considerate of that because not having a good WFi signal, having choppy video or choppy sound can definitely impact the quality of therapeutic care and we want to be mindful of them.
So I feel like we covered a lot today about whether or not how teletherapy practice is right for you. If you are a care provider and you have a teletherapy practice, maybe you are a traditional psychotherapist, maybe you're speech and language pathologist, maybe you are an astrologist, or you have some sort of care based business and you are considering how to grow that practice organically--how to grow it without feeling like you have to be on the hamster wheel of social media, I would invite you to apply for my small group coaching program Grow a Profitable Practice From the Inside Out. It is a five month program where together we will spend a lot of time on money mindset, on financial anxiety, on digging into money shame, then we will help you to set a fee that supports your life's needs and dreams so you can take time off see aligned clients and not feel like you have to slide your scale left and right to make ends meet. And once we get through the money mindset and fee setting and upholding your said fees, we will then get into making sure that your niches super clear and specific, making sure that your website is written with search engine optimization in mind. That's what helps to keep those referrals running without you feeling like you have to just constantly post or be on social media on the timer on your phone all the time. It's really exhausting. And finally we will wrap up with a containment, courtesy of resourced therapist, they are going to come in towards the end of the program to make sure that everybody who joins has the ability to take care of themselves because so often when we're building our businesses, we forget that we have to be taken care of we are the CEO, CFO, CEOO our business and if we don't take care of ourselves, all the techniques in the world, all the business strategies in the world won't matter. So if you want to join a small group, I cap it at 12 people. You can learn everything you need to know plus the information on applying at MindMoneyBalance.com/ProfitablePractice. There's information there as well about what's included all of the details, and also how much it costs and information on the payment plan.
So I will leave you right there and I will hopefully see your name on the application and if it's not for you, I would love it if you forwarded the information to a friend I love being able to help other care providers take care of themselves and financial self-care is such a cornerstone of that. So if you know somebody who's in the health and healing space and they consider themselves a small business or private practice owner, send them to MindMoneyBalance.com/ProfitablePractice. See you next week.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai